The Mrs. C. F. - related german Family Branches Haas and Grimm
living at Neckarelz, Baden*, Germany in 19th century
all known facts collected and shown on one single webpage


contents, navigation
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*Baden is today a part of Baden - Württemberg

The view is directed to 18th century, so the stories about Johann Ludwig Haas as a citizen of the United States Of America and about his immigration are not touched.

update 2008 - we will add as much we can get

"all in one" will be updated, correctures will be done quickly, my eMail address SchermulyC@gmx.de
see also " At Least" from Nov 2003


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Appendix November 2008 - Ferdinand Haas


order after dates
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1804 May 5 th birth of Georg Adam Grimm
1807 Jan 3 rd birth of Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller
1831 Apr 29 th birth of Jakob Haas
1836 Nov 21 st birth of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
1852 reg. Johanna Elisabetha Grimm Register G 1849 line 5 (1852 p 37 no 7)
1853 reg. Philipp Grimm Register G 1853 line 1 (1853 p 21 no 1)
1856 reg. (death?) Sophie Katharina Grimm Register G 1849 line 9 (1856 p 63 no 7)
1857 Jun 9 th Georg Adam Grimm married Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller
1858 Mar 13 th birth of Elisabetha Katharina Haas
1861 Mar birth of Katharina Grimm B exact date unknown
1862 Feb 1 st death of Katharina Grimm B
1862 Feb 3 rd funeral of Katharina Grimm B
1863 Oct 8 th Jakob Haas married Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
1866 reg. Joh. Matthias Grimm Register G 1853 line 5 (1866 p 57 no 2)
1869 reg. Kathar. Elis. Grimm Register G 1849 line 23 (1869 p 172 no 3)
1869 reg. Ludwig Anton Grimm Register G 1849 line 24 (1869 p 172 no 6)




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Family
Georg Adam Grimm 1 husband of 3 5 father of 2 4 11
Johanna Elisabetha Grimm reg 1852 no doc
Johann Ludwig Grimm 2 brother of 4 11
Joh. Matthias Grimm reg 1866 no doc
Kathar. Elis. Grimm reg 1869 no doc
Katharina Grimm 3 w Brauch n Haller 1st wife of 1 mother of 11
Katharina Grimm B*1861+1862 daughter of 11 sister of 6 9
Ludwig Anton Grimm reg 1869 no doc
Magdalena Grimm 4 sister of 2 11
Philipp Grimm reg 1853 (correct date?) no doc
Sophie Katharina Grimm 5 née Maier 2nd wife of 1 stepmother of 11
Elisabetha Katharina Haas 6 daughter of 8 11 sister of B 9
Eva Katharina Haas 7 née Schneider wife of 10 mother of 8
Jakob Haas 8 husband of 11 father of 6 9
Johann Ludwig Haas 9 son of 8 11 brother of 6 B immigr.
Johann Valentin Haas 10 husb of 7 father of 8
Katharina Elisabetha Haas 11 née Grimm wife of 8 sist of 2 4 moth of 6 B 9



Pastors and
Church Administr.
W Hoffinger, C. A.
F. H. Godt, P.*
Guy, P.
W. Schuhmann, P.

Witnesses
Heinrich Augustin
Heinrich Fütterer
H. Fütterer
Philipp Grimm
Adam Mitmesser
Gyldane Mittersson



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Georg Adam Grimm born May 5th 1804
married Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857
widower Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier
father of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
(father of Magdalena Grimm ?)
(father of Johann Ludwig Grimm ?)
grandfather of Johann Ludwig Haas, Katharina Grimm B and Elisabetha Katharina Haas
different professions
fisherman
after marr doc himself - Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857
manson master
after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863
fisherman
after bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862
fisherman
after funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862

named in
marr doc himself - Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857 p 20 no 4 as groom
funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862 p 105 no 3 as father of the mother
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 p 61 n 8 as father of the mother
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as father of the bride
Register G 1853 line 2 (1857 p 20 no 4) as "Adam Grimm"
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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296 Johanna Elisabetha Grimm reg. 1852

named in
Register G 1849 line 5 (1852 p 37 no 7)
name in Sütterlin scripture


1852 (:unehelich:) Johanna Elisabetha
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Family

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Johann Ludwig Grimm
(son of Georg Adam Grimm ?)
(son of Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier ?)
(son of Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller ?)
brother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm and Magdalena Grimm
uncle of Elisabetha Katharina Haas, Katharina Grimm B, uncle and godfather of Johann Ludwig Haas

named in
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 p 61 n 8 as godfather and as brother of the mother
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Joh. Matthias Grimm reg 1866

named in
Register G 1853 (1866 p 57 no 2) line 5
name in Sütterlin scripture


1866 Grimm Joh. Matthias



Family

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Kathar. Elis. Grimm reg. 1869

named in
bottom of Register G 1849 (1869 p 173 no 3) line 23, the first of two lines from 1869, one line before Ludwig Anton Grimm
name in Sütterlin scripture


1869 Kathar. Elis. 172 3



Family

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Katharina Grimm widowed Joh. Peter Brauch née Haller born Jan 3rd 1807 roman- catholic
married Georg Adam Grimm June 9th 1857
(mother of Johann Ludwig Grimm ?)
(mother of Magdalena Grimm ?)

named in
marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - herself June 9th 1857 p 20 n 4 as bride
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Katharina Grimm B unknown birth date died Feb 1st 1862 as "ten months, fifteen days old"
(She got the sign B because the name Katharina Grimm is already given to Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller, second wife of her grandfather Georg Adam Grimm.
She is noted here for completeness, to prevent errors, e. g. on dates - and to honour that poor, nearby anonymous girl as a by our Lord and Saviour very beloved creature.)
sister of Elisabetha Katharina Haas and Johann Ludwig Haas
daughter of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
granddaughter of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier
granddaughter of Johann Valentin Haas and Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider

named in
her own funl. doc Febr. 3rd 1862 p 105 no 3, p 106 as "a ten months, fifteen days old child"
Register G 1849 (1862 p 105 no 3) line 14
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Ludwig Anton Grimm reg. 1869

named in
bottom of Register G 1849 (1869 p 173 no 6) line 24, the second and last line from 1869, one line after Kathar. Elis. Grimm
name in Sütterlin scripture


1869 Ludwig Anton 173. 6



Family

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Magdalena Grimm
(daughter of Georg Adam Grimm?)
(daughter of Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier ?)
(daughter of Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller ?)
sister of Johann Ludwig Grimm and Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
aunt of Elisabetha Katharina Haas, Katharina Grimm B and aunt and godmother of Johann Ludwig Haas

named in
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as godmother and as sister of the mother
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Philipp Grimm reg. 1853 (correct date?)
Is he identic with the witness Philipp Grimm?

named in
Register G 1853 (1853 p 21 no 1) line 1
name in Sütterlin scripture


1853 (correct date?) Philipp 21 1



Family

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Sophie Katharina Grimm née Maier reg. 1856
married Georg Adam Grimm
mother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
(mother of Johann Ludwig Grimm ?)
(mother of Magdalena Grimm ?)
grandmother of Elisabetha Katharina Haas, Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas
different names
Sophia Katharina Grimm, née Mayer
after marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857
Katharina Grimm, née Mayer
after funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862
Katharina Grimm, née Mayer
after bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862
Sophie Catharina Grimm, née Mayer
after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863
Sophia Katharina Grimm
after Register G 1849 1856 (p 63 no 7), line 9

named in
marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857
funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862 as mother of the mother
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as mother of the mother
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as mother of the bride
Register G 1849 (1856 p 63 no 7) line 9
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Elisabetha Katharina Haas born March 13th 1858
sister of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas
daughter of Jakob Haas and Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
granddaughter of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier
granddaughter of Johann Valentin Haas and Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider

named in
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as daughter of bride and groom
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider
married Johann Valentin Haas
mother of Jakob Haas
grandmother of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas

named in
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as mother of the groom
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Jakob Haas born April 29th 1831
married Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863
son of Johann Valentin Haas and Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider
father of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas
Profession
linen webber after marr doc himself - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863
Home
Kälbertshausen after marr doc himself - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863

named in
marr doc himself - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as groom
Register H 1818 (1863 p 42 no 9) line 5
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Johann Ludwig Haas born May 10th 1862 baptized May 18th 1862
son of Jakob Haas and Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm
brother of Katharina Grimm B
nephew of Magdalena Grimm and Johann Ludwig Grimm
grandson of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier

named in
bapt doc of himself May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as godfather and as brother of the mother
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as son of bride and groom
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Johann Valentin Haas
married Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider
father of Jakob Haas
grandfather of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas
Profession
linen webber master after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863

named in
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863 as father of the groom
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm born Nov 21st 1836
married Jakob Haas Oct 8th 1863
daughter of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier
sister of Johann Ludwig Grimm and Magdalena Grimm
mother of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas

named in
funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862 as mother
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as mother
marr doc Jakob Haas - herself Oct. 8th 1863 as bride
Register H 1818 (1863 p 42 no 9) line 5
name in Sütterlin scripture



Family

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Pastors and Church Administrators


W. Hoffinger, Pfarrverweser, Church Administrator
unders. marr Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857



Pastors and Church Administrators

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F. H. Godt, Pfarrer, Pastor
unders. marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863
wrote border note without a date on bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (signature 19th) 1862

* Please, do not trust blindly in documents, undersigned by him, he made alot of mistakes in marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863.
I guess he made the mistakes by will, because he was an ignorant and followed his own imaginations about an "elegant" looking document or he was filled by disdainfullness and liked to show his academic grade (or was he drunken?). Never seen on other documents "October" written with a C, correct is Oktober - or Jacob instead of Jakob, Sophia instead of Sophie, Jakob and Sophie is usual in german tongue, but absolutely rare is Jacob and Sophia, maybe on french or italian immigrants or so. On Maier or Mayer I am not sure, what will be correct, I tip on the more usual form Maier in case, I am wrong, I will correct that quickly. I guess, he also gave Georg Adam Grimm a wrong profession.
It has fatal consequences.
Other document writers have had later sometimes overtaken his mistakes and we must look carefully, also not to step in that trap.
Please note,
in Germany elder frontnames (today all things are possible - like Heiko for a boy, normally it is a dog name) will follow regularily common rules (fortunately there have been during centuries laws about allowed names and how to write them), but on family names we might meet from time to time really exotic word constructions because family names could come from the Neanderthals upon us. A lightning example is Bismarck (Fürst Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor under Emperor Wilhelm II). It is strictly forbidden to write TZ or CK after L, M, N, R and in general, in german we will not find three consonants in sequence. Another case are words from other languages, like the spanish name Mercedes or product names like the Bahlsen cookies named Keks after english cakes, in this we must look from case to case for the very exact words to make no mistakes - that might us later confuse.
Take care,
on doubts please ask - maybe I know where to find an answer?



Pastors and Church Administrators

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Guy, Pfarrer, Pastor
wrote the Title Page of Funeral / Burial Book Neckarelz 1870



Pastors and Church Administrators

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W. Schuhmann, Pfarrer, Pastor
unders. funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862
unders. bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (signature 19th) 1862



Pastors and Church Administrators

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Witnesses


Heinrich Augustin, precentor
witn. marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857



Witnesses

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Heinrich Fütterer, evangelic saxton
possibly identic with H. Fütterer
witn. on bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th 1862



Witnesses

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H. Fütterer, day labourer
possibly identic with Heinrich Fütterer
witn. marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857



Witnesses

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Philipp Grimm
Is he identic with Philipp Grimm reg. 1853 ?
witn. bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th 1862
witn. funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862
witn. marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863
Profession
self- employed coachman after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863
farmer after funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862




Witnesses

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Adam Mitmesser, farmer
witn. funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862



Witnesses

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Gyldane Mittersson
witn. marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863



Witnesses

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Marriage 1857 Georg Adam Grimm & Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller p 20 no 4
Funeral 1862 Katharina Grimm B p 105 no 3
Baptism 1862 Johann Ludwig Haas p 61 no 8
Marriage 1863 Jakob Haas & Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm p 42 no 9

left side middle right side of Register H 1818
left side middle right side of Register G 1849
left side middle right side of Register G 1853
Beerdigungsbuch Neckarelz 1870 Funeral / Burial Book Cover


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Marriage
Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857
reg. as "Adam Grimm" in Register G 1853 (p 20 no 4) line 2

Please note,
in this marriage document are not named the parents of bride and groom.


20

No. 4
1857


Im Jahr eintausendachthundert und sieben und fünfzig den neunten
In the year onethousandeigthhundred and seven and fifty on ninth

Juni, Vormittags elf Uhr wurde dahier nach Trauschein des Großh.
June, morning 11 o'clock have been in here after marr certificate of Grand D.

Bezirksamtes Mosbach vom 30 Mai 1857 No. 17417 und nach ordnungs-
(Grand Duke) district office Mosbach from May 30th 1857 no. 17417 and after

mäßiger Proklamation vom 31 Mai und 7 Juni d. J. und nach Entlaß-
regular proclamation from May 31st and June 7th this year and after dismissal

schein des hiesigen kathol. Pfarramtes durch den unterzeichneten
certificate of local catholic parish office by the underwriting

Pfarrverweser getraut: Adam , Bürger und Fischer dahier,
parish administrator married: Adam , local citizen and fisherman,

evangelischer Konfeßion, geboren den 5ten Mai 1804, Witwer der
evangelic confession, born on May 5th 1804, widower of

Sophia Katharina, geb. Mayer und Katharina Brauch geborene
Sophia Katharina, née Mayer and Katharina Brauch née

Haller, Witwe des verstorbenen hiesigen Bürgers Joh. Peter
Haller, widow of late local citizen Joh. Peter

Brauch, geboren den 3ten Januar 1807, kathol. Konfession. Zeugen:
Brauch, born on January 3rd 1807, cathol. confession. Witnesses:

Heinrich Augustin, hiesiger Bürger und Kantor und H. Fütterer
Heinrich Augustin, local citizen and precentor and H. Fütterer

hiesiger Bürger und Taglöhner.
local citizen and day labourer.

Neckarelz, den 9ten Juni 1857
Neckarelz, on June 9th 1857

W Hoffinger, Pfarrverw.
parish administrator




9ten Juni
Adam
und
Katharina Brauch
geb. Haller


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Funeral
Katharina Grimm B Febr. 3rd 1862

1862.
(p 105)
3. Im Jahr Ein tausend acht hundert und Zwei und
3. In Year One thousand eight hundred and Two and

sechzig, am ersten Februar Morgens
sixty, on first February Morning

neun Uhr starb zu Neckarelz und wurde den
nine o'clock died at Neckarelz and has been on

dritten Februar Morgens Zehn Uhr durch
third February Morning Ten o'clock by (through)
den 1sten Febr.
on 1st Febr.
Kath.

(10 Monate
(10 Months

15 Tage
15 Days

106 1862.

den unterzeichneten Pfarrverweser beerdigt:
the undersigned Parish Administrator buried:

Katharina, ein Zehn Monate und fünfzehn
Katharina, a Ten Months and fifteen

Tage altes Kind, uneheliches Kind der Katharina
Days old child, illegitime child of Katharina

Elisabetha , eheliche Tochter des hiesigen
Elisabetha , conjugal Daughter of local

Bürgers und Fischers Georg Adam und der
Citizen and Fisherman Georg Adam and the

verstorbenen Katharina, geborene Mayer da =
late Katharina, née Mayer in (there)

hier. Zeugen sind: Adam Mitmesser und
here. Witnesses are: Adam Mitmesser and

Philipp , beide Bürger und Bauern dahier.
Philipp , both Citizens and Farmers in here.

Neckarelz, den 3ten Febr. 1862
Neckarelz, on 3rd Febr. 1862

M. Schuhmann, Pfarrer.
Pastor


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Baptism
Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862

1862.
61.

8. Im Jahr Ein tausend acht hundert und Zwei und
8th In year one thousand eight hundred and two and

sechzig, den zehnten Mai Abends um neun
sixty, the tenth May evening at nine

Uhr wurde zu Neckarelz geboren und am acht =
o'clock has been to Neckarelz born and on eight -

zehnten desselbigen Monats Mittags Zwei Uhr
tenth of the same month noon two o'clock

durch den unterzeichneten Pfarrverweser getauft:
by the signatory Church Administrator baptized:

Johann Ludwig, unehelicher Sohn der Elisabetha
Johann Ludwig, illegitimate son of Elisabetha

Grimm, ehelicher Tochter des Georg Adam ,
Grimm, conjugal Daughter of Georg Adam ,

Bürgers und Fischers dahier und dessen Ehefrau
Citizen and Fisher in here and whose Wife

Katharina geborene Maier. Pathen: Johann
Katharina née Maier. Godfathers: Johann

Ludwig , Bruder und Magdalena ,
Ludwig , Brother and Magdalena ,

Schwester der Mutter. Zeugen: Philipp
Sister of the Mother. Witnesses: Philipp

, Bürger und Bauer dahier und Heinrich
, Citizen and Farmer in here and Heinrich

Fütterer, evangelischer Kirchendiener dahier.
Fütterer, evangelic Saxton in here.

den 10ten Mai
Johann Ludwig
(unehelich)
(illegitimate)

jetzt
by now

Johann Ludwig Haas
dieses Kind ist du[rch]
this child is through

Anerkennung u. nachf[ol-]
Acknowlgm. a. follow-

gende Ehe ehelich ge[wor-]
ing Marriage legitimate beco-

den. Siehe Ehebuch
med. See Marriage book

Jahrgang 1863 Seite [43]
Volume 1863 Page [43]

No 9.
Godt, Pfr.
(Pfarrer) Pastor



















Neckarelz, den 19ten Mai
1862.
W. Schuhmann, Pfr.
(Pfarrer) Pastor



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Marriage
Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm October 8th 1863


42.






8 October
Jacob Haas
und
Catharina Elisabetha
Grimm
1863.


No. 9. Im Jahr Christi eintausendachthundert
No. 9. In the year of Christ onethousandeighthundred

drei und sechzig den achten October Vormittags
three and sixty at eighth october on morning

elf Uhr wurden nach Trauschein Großh. Bezirks-
eleven o'clock became after marriage certificate Grand- Ducal district

amts Mosbach vom 12. Sept. d. J. No. 13,996, nach
office Mosbach from Sept. 12th of this year No. 13,996, after

ordnungsmäßiger Proklamation in hiesiger Kirche
regular proclamation in local church

am 13ten und 20 Sept. d. J. und nach Proklamations-
on 13th and 20th sept. of this year and after proclamation

schein des evang. Pfarramts Kälbertshausen
certificate of evangelic parish office Kälbertshausen

vom 24 Sept. d. J. durch den unterzeichneten
from 24th sept. of the year by the signed

Pfarrer hier getraut: Jacob Haas, Bür-
pastor here married: Jacob Haas, citizen

ger in Kälbertshausen und Leineweber, gebo-
of Kälbertshausen and linen weaver, born

ren den 29 April 1831 ehelicher lediger Sohn
on 29th April 1831, conjugal single son

des verstorbenen hiesigen Bürgers und Weber-
of late local citizen and weaver

meisters Johann Valentin Haas und seiner ver-
master Johann Valentin Haas and his late

storbenen Ehefrau Eva Catharina geb. Schnei-
wife Eva Catharina née Schnei-

der - und Catharina Elisabetha Grimm,
der - and Catharina Elisabetha Grimm,

geboren den 21 Novemb. 1836 eheliche ledige
born on 21th novemb. 1836 conjugal single

Tochter des hiesigen Bürgers und Maurer-
daughter of local citizen and mason

meisters Georg Adam Grimm und seiner
master Georg Adam Grimm and his

verstorbenen Ehefrau Sophie Catharina geb.
late wife Sophie Catharina née

Mayer, beide evangelischer Confession;
Mayer, both evangelic confession;

Zeugen waren: 1, Philipp Grimm, Fuhrmann,
Witnesses have been: 1, Philipp Grimm, coachman,

2, Georg Adam Mittersson, Tagelöhner, beide
2, Georg Adam Mittersson, day labourer, both

hiesige Bürger. -
local citizens. -

Unmittelbar vor der Trauung erklären die an-
Directly before the wedding explain the be-

gehenden Eheleute vor dem unterzeichneten
ginning couples before the signed

Pfarrer und den oben genannten Zeugen,
pastor and the above named Witnesses,

daß sie die Tochter, welche die Catharina Elisabe-
that they the daughter, wich the Catharina Elisabe-

tha Grimm am 13ten März 1858 Abends 9 Uhr
tha Grimm on 13th march 1858 on evening 9 o'clock

im ledigen Stande hier geboren und welche
in single state here born and wich

laut Taufbuch Seite 18 No. 2 den Namen
after baptizing book page 18 no. 2 the name

Elisabetha Catharina erhalten hat, sowie
Elisabetha Catharina had got, as well as

den Sohn, welchen die besagte Catharina Elisabetha
the son, wich the said Catharina Elisabetha


1863.


Grimm am 10. Mai 1862 Abends neun Uhr im
Grimm on may 10th on evening 9 o'clock in

ledigen Stande hier geboren und, nachher laut Tauf-
single state here gave birth and, after baptizing-

buch Seite 61 No. 8 den Namen "Johann
book page 61 No. 8 the Name "Johann

Ludwig" erhalten hat, beide als ihre ehelichen
Ludwig" got, both as their conjugal

Kinder anerkennen. -
children recognize. -




Vorgelesen, anerkannt und unterschrieben:
Read out, accepted and underwritten:

Unterschrift der Eltern: Unterschrift der Zeugen:
Signature of Parents: Signature of Witnesses:

Jakob Haas Philipp Grimm

Elisabetha Grimm Gyldane Mittersson

Neckarelz, den achten October achtzehnhun-
Neckarelz, on october eighth eighteenhun-

dert drei und sechzig. -
dred three and sixty. -

FHGodt Pfarrer
Pastor
43.





order after documents


left side Register H 1818 middle right side order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register H 1818 order after documents history.back



order after documents

middle of Register H 1818 left side right side order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register H 1818 order after documents history.back



order after documents

right side Register H 1818 left side middle order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register H 1818 order after documents history.back



order after documents

left side Register G 1849 middle right side order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register G 1849 order after documents history.back



order after documents

middle of Register G 1849 left side right side order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register G 1849 order after documents history.back



order after documents

right side Register G 1849 left side middle order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register G 1849 order after documents history.back



order after documents

left side Register G 1853 middle right side order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register G 1853 order after documents history.back



order after documents

middle of Register G 1853 left side right side order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register G 1853 order after documents history.back



order after documents

right side Register G 1853 left side middle order after documents history.back



left side middle right side of Register G 1853 order after documents history.back



order after documents



history.back


Beerdigungsbuch
Funeral / Burial Book

der evang. zert. Kirchengemeinde
of the evangelic certificated Church community

Neckarelz
Neckarelz

Geführt durch:
leaded (managed) by

1) Pfarrer Guy vom 1. Februar 1870 an.
Pastor Guy from February 1st 1870 on.




order after documents







The Sütterlin ABC
see also Names in Sütterlin scripture
top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back
A A B B C C D D E E F F G G H H I I J J K K L L M M
N N O O P P Q Q R R S S T T U U V V W W X X Y Y Z Z
a a b b c c d d e e f f g g h h i i j j k k l l m m
n n o o p p q q r r s s t t u u v v w w x x y y z z

0 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9
Umlaute Ä Ä ä ä Ö Ö ö ö Ü Ü ü ü
special S ß ß sharp S $ $ final S
similar looking capitals B B C C L L

If you like that, load and install the Sütterlin scripture suefrag1.ttf to see an upright form of the german characters. I have learned, a correct scripture must point to a direction of 70°. This scripture, nearby 90° vertikal is never a scripture as we like to use daily, I guess, it is a revision of the 1920ies, no more usual after WWII. Unto schoolreform in late 1951, I had to learn to write in a similar scripture for about one a half years. Some characters are in here missed - e. g. some final characters (final characters are known in other laguages too, e. g. in ancient hebrew).




Names in Sütterlin scripture suefrag1.ttf

see also The Sütterlin ABC

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Georg Adam Grimm


Georg Adam Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Johanna Elisabetha Grimm


Johanna Elisabetha Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Johann Ludwig Grimm


Johann Ludwig Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Joh. Matthia$ Grimm


Joh. Matthias Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Kathar. Elis. Grimm


Kathar. Elis. Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Katharina Grimm
wid. Joh. Peter Brauch née Haller


Katharina Grimm widowed Joh. Peter Brauch née Haller

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Katharina Grimm B


Katharina Grimm B

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Ludwig Anton Grimm


Ludwig Anton Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Magdalena Grimm


Magdalena Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Philipp Grimm


Philipp Grimm

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Sophie Katharina Grimm
née Maier


Sophie Katharina Grimm née Maier

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Elisabetha Katharina Haa$


Elisabetha Katharina Haas

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Eva Katharina Haa$


Eva Katharina Haas

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Jakob Haa$


Jakob Haas

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Johann Ludwig Haa$


Johann Ludwig Haas

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Johann Valentin Haa$


Johann Valentin Haas

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back



Katharina Elisabetha Haa$
née Grimm


Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm

top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back





Tree
top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back

Haller Maier Grimm Schneider Haas
Katharina
Grimm 1
wid Brauch
née Haller
born Jan 3rd 1807
2nd wife of 3
stepm. of 8 Sophie Katharina
Grimm 2
née Maier
1st wife of 3
mother of 8 Georg Adam
Grimm 3 born
May 5th 1804
married 1
Jun 9th 1857 Eva Katharina
Haas 4
née Schneider Johann Valentin
Haas 5
widower while
marriage of 8 9
Magdalena
Grimm 6
sister of 7 8 Johann Ludwig
Grimm 7
brother of 6 8
it is not known, 6 7 are
children of 1 or of 2
Katharina Elisabetha Haas 8
née Grimm
born Nov 21st 1836
mother of 10 11 B Jakob Haas 9
born Apr 29th 1831 married 8 Oct
8th 1863 citizen of Kälbertshausen
~ 5 miles southwest of Neckarelz
Johann Ludwig Haas 10
born May 10th 1862
brother of 11 B
immigr. to the USA Elisabetha Katharina Haas 11
born March 13th 1858 named in
marr doc Oct 8th 1863 p 42 no 9
5 lines near end of docs 1st page
sister of 10 B
some homelesses
Johanna Elisabetha 1852 p 37 n 7
Philipp 1853 p 21 n 1
Joh. Matthias 1866 p 57 n 2
Kathar. Elis. 1869 p 172 n 3
Ludwig Anton 1869 p 172 n 6
Katharina Grimm B
died Feb 1st 1862 as "ten months
and fifteen days old" named in
funl doc Feb 3rd 1862 p 105 no 3
sister of 10 11


**GC** D. F.



download
top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back
right mouse click, "save as ..." - copy all files in a common main folder, in picture named "genealog" - you might name the main folder as you want.

This webpage "all in one" is packed in a selfexploding exe file all_in_1.exe it will have ~ 1 MB. To unpack click on all_in_1.exe in main folder, the needed subfolder will be created while unpacking.

Updates will be much smaller, this first archive will contain more pictures as the next will need.



the Sütterlin scripture suefrag1.ttf - see The Sütterlin ABC



bottom
top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back
I guess, there are at present two problems to go ahead.
A.
Unknown persons, e. g. see "some homelesses" (homeless because I do not know, where to build in their names) in tree. I see the idea "get the unknown" as a prior interest to find out all family branches.
B.
Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm, wife of Jakob Haas has a sister Magdalena Grimm and a brother Johann Ludwig Grimm named in Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm - Jakob Haas marriage document as Witnesses. The mother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm, wife of Jakob Haas is Sophie Katharina Grimm née Maier 1st wife of Georg Adam Grimm named in Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm - Jakob Haas marriage document.
Who is the mother of Magdalena Grimm and Johann Ludwig Grimm? See also tree.
To be exact, since Georg Adam Grimm and his 2nd wife Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller, mother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm have been more than one times married, we do also not know, who their father is.



At Least

This page is to understand as an addition to our previous pages. (It is the largest page I ever wrote and it will contain nearby 1000 internal links.) In the beginning of the Grimm and Haas adventure I had not known, where the way will lead us and had not a sight for a good folder structure, now the case is stepped in and we will get more and more documents. Right now - after seeing, what is needed or what could be done better for the future, I am creating a new folder - and page structure, that shall meet the needings for a long time of growing family branches. Every update will create its own subfolder. While clicking, copying and writing I got the idea to create a central document - this page, containing the collected facts for a fasten and sure overview. Details like translations, comments etc can be done in framesets - as we had already before - linked from / to this page (is my plan).

I am new to genalogy.
I have no idea what to do and in wich way. This page is a result of my phantasy, what could be helpfull to go ahead.
It will contain mistakes. Not by will. I always have written what really exists - no more. A clear picture of my knowledge is the tree. In doubts I have looked to find out the best or have pointed to the problem, e. g. in matters about the unknown registered persons
Johanna Elisabetha Grimm 1852 p 37 n 7
Philipp Grimm 1853 p 21 n 1
Joh. Matthias Grimm 1866 p 57 n 2
Kathar. Elis. Grimm 1869 p 172 n 3
Ludwig Anton Grimm 1869 p 172 n 6
or in the case of the unknown mother of Magdalena Grimm and Johann Ludwig Grimm, sister and brother of the central person Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm.


Her signature in her marriage document.
Ladies like she will have my sympathy. I wish I could spend comfort and help to get a better existance. What a hopeless life she must have had, condamned to live in a time with unanswered burning social questions - in a secularized Germany. Later, in end of century, after 1880 large awakenesses brake up - but the years before in growing industry environments, ordinairy people like workers and farmers had not good days. Poorness was extreme and always and everywhere present, an endless tristesse.

By the way - the tree.
It may be, I have mirrored or turned on head - never before I have written or drawn a family tree. I could have read a book about how to handle individual genealogy, but have not done because I will save time. In case, any content of my stuff will not be usefull or a hinderance, I promise, I will better it.

The tables max (outter) width is 612 pixels. Plus 20 pix for scrollbar and 8 pix tolerance for a possibly browser window frame on both sides, it meets the size of elder screens. For sure, we use larger screens, but to read text, spread over a wider area is uncomfortable, lines should have a length like printed books, no more. It is in common recommended to break lines in eMails already after 72 characters. This text in the by me preselected scripture size should have around 90 characters per line, the maximum is reached by this. What a luck the Grimm and Hass families do not use too long names, otherwise I had trouble in some cases like in tree with needed space.



Appendix November 2008 - Ferdinand Haas



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end of page



© 1804 to 2003 the Grimm and Haas families

Johann Ludwig Haas - Google Drive

JoLuHaas - Google Drive

I found the webpage that Carsten, who interpreted the documents that I sent him from Old German to English. He made this website and I had saved it to my harddrive when the webpage was going to be taken down. I am including the first paragraph as Carsten had written it down in it's entirety. I haven't learned to put the webpage back as Carsten had it when it was online. Carsten has since gone on to heaven and can not continue the project that he had predicted that this would become. I'm trying to put back as much of the information from those interpreted documents back in this Haas and Grimm blog. It will be difficult to follow, as I do not know how to write html and make the links back to the original as Carsten had made them. Thank you, Carsten, for the work that you did for me. Carolyn


The Mrs. C. F. - related german Family Branches Haas and Grimm
living at Neckarelz, Baden*, Germany in 19th century
all known facts collected and shown on one single webpage

contents, navigation
order after ... dates ... names ... documents

tree download bottom history.back

*Baden is today a part of Baden - Württemberg

The view is directed to 18th century, so the stories about Johann Ludwig Haas as a citizen of the United States Of America and about his immigration are not touched.

"all in one" will be updated
previous this next
allin000.htm allin001.htm allin002.htm

correctures will be done quickly
my eMail address fit_n_healthy@gmx.de
see also "At Least" from Nov 2003

The picture is shrinked, click by left to enlarge and return by back function of your browser or click by right and choose "open in new window".

Marriage and Baptismal Records Translated

I found these documents on microfilm that I had ordered at my nearby Family History Center. I made photo-copies from the micro-film of the records that pertained to names that looked like my family names and I sent them to Carsten. It is very hard to find someone who can read the Old Style Fraktur writing and print. It was indeed a blessing when Carsten was able to be familiar with the Fraktur and translated for me from the German to English.

He has provided copies of the documents that I sent to him. Since they were so large he needed to show them in sections. But, on this webpage that he made for me, one can navigate around the site.


There is a wealth of genealogy information in these church documents. I will share more about them in another post.

Where Do I Begin

Where do I begin to share the story of my journey in discovering my German heritage?

I have been researching my mother's side of the family history for several years. It has been a fun, and exciting journey of research and travel for me.

My problem is deciding how to organize it and share it in this blog.

It is my goal to document here my HAAS and GRIMM Family research with original documents and family photos. My friend Carsten Schermuly, who lives in Germany, and who can read the old style German Fraktur script, is translating documents for me that I have found on microfilm at my nearby Family History Center. My photos have been given to me by my mother. There are some photos that I will share that have been given to me by extended family members, too.

My journey with my German research began with stories from my Grandfather Julius George Haas whose father and mother both came from Baden, Germany. Johann Ludwig Haas immigrated from Neckarelz, Baden, Germany in 1882, and Mary Magdalena Bauer immigrated from Rosenberg, Baden, Germany about the same time as Great Grandfather Johann Ludwig Haas. The story goes that they were first cousins who met and married after both immigrated to America. My Great Grandfather came first and he is first documented in Harrison Co., Indiana where his Uncle Ferdinand Haas was living.

Mary Magdalena Bauer, whose father was Ferdinand Haas, immigrated to America to live with her father. She had her mother's maiden name as her father probably had not married her mother before she was born. I have not found a marriage document and children who were born out of wedlock were give the name their mother's maiden name.

This was the information that my Grandfather Julius Haas was able to remember to pass on to me. He did tell me that his Grandfather's name was Jakob. But, I was not able to know anything about that name until further research and a trip back to the Old Country to the village of their origination where there were baptismal and marriage records with family names on them. It is these records that confirm my German heritage.

I was able to find the village from a copy of the Naturalization document and a Citizenship Paper that my mother's cousin, Randle Lee Haas, sent to me. Randle Lee's father had given these documents to him.

The story will continue later...........

Documents Translated From German

Johann Ludwig Haas by Carsten Schermuly

Johann Ludwig Haas by Carsten Schermuly