tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-85035245070393293172024-03-13T04:57:37.048-07:00Haas and Grimm Family From Baden GermanyCarolynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01173949750553689335noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503524507039329317.post-12185749372325919672012-11-20T20:14:00.001-08:002012-11-20T20:14:14.308-08:00 <br />
The Mrs. C. F. - related german Family Branches Haas and Grimm<br />
living at Neckarelz, Baden*, Germany in 19th century<br />
all known facts collected and shown on one single webpage<br />
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contents, navigation<br />
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*Baden is today a part of Baden - Württemberg<br />
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The view is directed to 18th century, so the stories about Johann Ludwig Haas as a citizen of the United States Of America and about his immigration are not touched.<br />
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update 2008 - we will add as much we can get<br />
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"all in one" will be updated, correctures will be done quickly, my eMail address SchermulyC@gmx.de<br />
see also " At Least" from Nov 2003<br />
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Appendix November 2008 - Ferdinand Haas<br />
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1804 May 5 th birth of Georg Adam Grimm<br />
1807 Jan 3 rd birth of Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller<br />
1831 Apr 29 th birth of Jakob Haas<br />
1836 Nov 21 st birth of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
1852 reg. Johanna Elisabetha Grimm Register G 1849 line 5 (1852 p 37 no 7)<br />
1853 reg. Philipp Grimm Register G 1853 line 1 (1853 p 21 no 1)<br />
1856 reg. (death?) Sophie Katharina Grimm Register G 1849 line 9 (1856 p 63 no 7)<br />
1857 Jun 9 th Georg Adam Grimm married Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller<br />
1858 Mar 13 th birth of Elisabetha Katharina Haas<br />
1861 Mar birth of Katharina Grimm B exact date unknown<br />
1862 Feb 1 st death of Katharina Grimm B<br />
1862 Feb 3 rd funeral of Katharina Grimm B<br />
1863 Oct 8 th Jakob Haas married Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
1866 reg. Joh. Matthias Grimm Register G 1853 line 5 (1866 p 57 no 2)<br />
1869 reg. Kathar. Elis. Grimm Register G 1849 line 23 (1869 p 172 no 3)<br />
1869 reg. Ludwig Anton Grimm Register G 1849 line 24 (1869 p 172 no 6)<br />
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order after names<br />
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Family<br />
Georg Adam Grimm 1 husband of 3 5 father of 2 4 11<br />
Johanna Elisabetha Grimm reg 1852 no doc<br />
Johann Ludwig Grimm 2 brother of 4 11<br />
Joh. Matthias Grimm reg 1866 no doc<br />
Kathar. Elis. Grimm reg 1869 no doc<br />
Katharina Grimm 3 w Brauch n Haller 1st wife of 1 mother of 11<br />
Katharina Grimm B*1861+1862 daughter of 11 sister of 6 9<br />
Ludwig Anton Grimm reg 1869 no doc<br />
Magdalena Grimm 4 sister of 2 11<br />
Philipp Grimm reg 1853 (correct date?) no doc<br />
Sophie Katharina Grimm 5 née Maier 2nd wife of 1 stepmother of 11<br />
Elisabetha Katharina Haas 6 daughter of 8 11 sister of B 9<br />
Eva Katharina Haas 7 née Schneider wife of 10 mother of 8<br />
Jakob Haas 8 husband of 11 father of 6 9<br />
Johann Ludwig Haas 9 son of 8 11 brother of 6 B immigr.<br />
Johann Valentin Haas 10 husb of 7 father of 8<br />
Katharina Elisabetha Haas 11 née Grimm wife of 8 sist of 2 4 moth of 6 B 9<br />
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Pastors and<br />
Church Administr.<br />
W Hoffinger, C. A.<br />
F. H. Godt, P.*<br />
Guy, P.<br />
W. Schuhmann, P.<br />
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Witnesses<br />
Heinrich Augustin<br />
Heinrich Fütterer<br />
H. Fütterer<br />
Philipp Grimm<br />
Adam Mitmesser<br />
Gyldane Mittersson<br />
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Georg Adam Grimm born May 5th 1804<br />
married Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857<br />
widower Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier<br />
father of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
(father of Magdalena Grimm ?)<br />
(father of Johann Ludwig Grimm ?)<br />
grandfather of Johann Ludwig Haas, Katharina Grimm B and Elisabetha Katharina Haas<br />
different professions<br />
fisherman<br />
after marr doc himself - Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857<br />
manson master<br />
after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863<br />
fisherman<br />
after bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862<br />
fisherman<br />
after funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862<br />
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named in<br />
marr doc himself - Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857 p 20 no 4 as groom<br />
funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862 p 105 no 3 as father of the mother<br />
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 p 61 n 8 as father of the mother<br />
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as father of the bride<br />
Register G 1853 line 2 (1857 p 20 no 4) as "Adam Grimm"<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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296 Johanna Elisabetha Grimm reg. 1852<br />
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named in<br />
Register G 1849 line 5 (1852 p 37 no 7)<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture<br />
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1852 (:unehelich:) Johanna Elisabetha <br />
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Family <br />
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Johann Ludwig Grimm<br />
(son of Georg Adam Grimm ?)<br />
(son of Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier ?)<br />
(son of Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller ?)<br />
brother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm and Magdalena Grimm<br />
uncle of Elisabetha Katharina Haas, Katharina Grimm B, uncle and godfather of Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
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named in<br />
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 p 61 n 8 as godfather and as brother of the mother<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Joh. Matthias Grimm reg 1866<br />
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named in<br />
Register G 1853 (1866 p 57 no 2) line 5<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture<br />
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1866 Grimm Joh. Matthias <br />
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Kathar. Elis. Grimm reg. 1869<br />
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named in<br />
bottom of Register G 1849 (1869 p 173 no 3) line 23, the first of two lines from 1869, one line before Ludwig Anton Grimm<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture<br />
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1869 Kathar. Elis. 172 3 <br />
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Katharina Grimm widowed Joh. Peter Brauch née Haller born Jan 3rd 1807 roman- catholic<br />
married Georg Adam Grimm June 9th 1857<br />
(mother of Johann Ludwig Grimm ?)<br />
(mother of Magdalena Grimm ?)<br />
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named in<br />
marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - herself June 9th 1857 p 20 n 4 as bride<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Katharina Grimm B unknown birth date died Feb 1st 1862 as "ten months, fifteen days old" <br />
(She got the sign B because the name Katharina Grimm is already given to Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller, second wife of her grandfather Georg Adam Grimm.<br />
She is noted here for completeness, to prevent errors, e. g. on dates - and to honour that poor, nearby anonymous girl as a by our Lord and Saviour very beloved creature.) <br />
sister of Elisabetha Katharina Haas and Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
daughter of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
granddaughter of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier<br />
granddaughter of Johann Valentin Haas and Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider<br />
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named in<br />
her own funl. doc Febr. 3rd 1862 p 105 no 3, p 106 as "a ten months, fifteen days old child"<br />
Register G 1849 (1862 p 105 no 3) line 14<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Ludwig Anton Grimm reg. 1869<br />
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named in<br />
bottom of Register G 1849 (1869 p 173 no 6) line 24, the second and last line from 1869, one line after Kathar. Elis. Grimm<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture<br />
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1869 Ludwig Anton 173. 6 <br />
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Magdalena Grimm<br />
(daughter of Georg Adam Grimm?)<br />
(daughter of Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier ?)<br />
(daughter of Katharina Grimm widowed Brauch née Haller ?)<br />
sister of Johann Ludwig Grimm and Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
aunt of Elisabetha Katharina Haas, Katharina Grimm B and aunt and godmother of Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
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named in<br />
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as godmother and as sister of the mother<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Philipp Grimm reg. 1853 (correct date?)<br />
Is he identic with the witness Philipp Grimm?<br />
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named in<br />
Register G 1853 (1853 p 21 no 1) line 1<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture<br />
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1853 (correct date?) Philipp 21 1 <br />
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Sophie Katharina Grimm née Maier reg. 1856<br />
married Georg Adam Grimm<br />
mother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
(mother of Johann Ludwig Grimm ?)<br />
(mother of Magdalena Grimm ?)<br />
grandmother of Elisabetha Katharina Haas, Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
different names<br />
Sophia Katharina Grimm, née Mayer<br />
after marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857<br />
Katharina Grimm, née Mayer<br />
after funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862<br />
Katharina Grimm, née Mayer<br />
after bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862<br />
Sophie Catharina Grimm, née Mayer<br />
after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863<br />
Sophia Katharina Grimm<br />
after Register G 1849 1856 (p 63 no 7), line 9<br />
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named in<br />
marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857<br />
funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862 as mother of the mother<br />
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as mother of the mother<br />
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as mother of the bride<br />
Register G 1849 (1856 p 63 no 7) line 9<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Elisabetha Katharina Haas born March 13th 1858<br />
sister of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
daughter of Jakob Haas and Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
granddaughter of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier<br />
granddaughter of Johann Valentin Haas and Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider<br />
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named in<br />
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as daughter of bride and groom<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider<br />
married Johann Valentin Haas<br />
mother of Jakob Haas<br />
grandmother of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
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named in<br />
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as mother of the groom<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Jakob Haas born April 29th 1831<br />
married Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863<br />
son of Johann Valentin Haas and Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider<br />
father of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
Profession<br />
linen webber after marr doc himself - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863<br />
Home<br />
Kälbertshausen after marr doc himself - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863<br />
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named in<br />
marr doc himself - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as groom<br />
Register H 1818 (1863 p 42 no 9) line 5<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Johann Ludwig Haas born May 10th 1862 baptized May 18th 1862<br />
son of Jakob Haas and Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
brother of Katharina Grimm B<br />
nephew of Magdalena Grimm and Johann Ludwig Grimm<br />
grandson of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier<br />
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named in<br />
bapt doc of himself May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as godfather and as brother of the mother<br />
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 as son of bride and groom<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Family <br />
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Johann Valentin Haas<br />
married Eva Katharina Haas née Schneider<br />
father of Jakob Haas<br />
grandfather of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
Profession<br />
linen webber master after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863<br />
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named in<br />
marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863 as father of the groom<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm born Nov 21st 1836<br />
married Jakob Haas Oct 8th 1863<br />
daughter of Georg Adam Grimm and Sophia Katharina Grimm née Maier<br />
sister of Johann Ludwig Grimm and Magdalena Grimm<br />
mother of Katharina Grimm B and Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
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named in<br />
funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862 as mother<br />
bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862 as mother<br />
marr doc Jakob Haas - herself Oct. 8th 1863 as bride<br />
Register H 1818 (1863 p 42 no 9) line 5<br />
name in Sütterlin scripture <br />
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Pastors and Church Administrators<br />
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W. Hoffinger, Pfarrverweser, Church Administrator<br />
unders. marr Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857 <br />
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Pastors and Church Administrators <br />
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F. H. Godt, Pfarrer, Pastor<br />
unders. marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863<br />
wrote border note without a date on bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (signature 19th) 1862<br />
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* Please, do not trust blindly in documents, undersigned by him, he made alot of mistakes in marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct 8th 1863.<br />
I guess he made the mistakes by will, because he was an ignorant and followed his own imaginations about an "elegant" looking document or he was filled by disdainfullness and liked to show his academic grade (or was he drunken?). Never seen on other documents "October" written with a C, correct is Oktober - or Jacob instead of Jakob, Sophia instead of Sophie, Jakob and Sophie is usual in german tongue, but absolutely rare is Jacob and Sophia, maybe on french or italian immigrants or so. On Maier or Mayer I am not sure, what will be correct, I tip on the more usual form Maier in case, I am wrong, I will correct that quickly. I guess, he also gave Georg Adam Grimm a wrong profession.<br />
It has fatal consequences.<br />
Other document writers have had later sometimes overtaken his mistakes and we must look carefully, also not to step in that trap.<br />
Please note,<br />
in Germany elder frontnames (today all things are possible - like Heiko for a boy, normally it is a dog name) will follow regularily common rules (fortunately there have been during centuries laws about allowed names and how to write them), but on family names we might meet from time to time really exotic word constructions because family names could come from the Neanderthals upon us. A lightning example is Bismarck (Fürst Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor under Emperor Wilhelm II). It is strictly forbidden to write TZ or CK after L, M, N, R and in general, in german we will not find three consonants in sequence. Another case are words from other languages, like the spanish name Mercedes or product names like the Bahlsen cookies named Keks after english cakes, in this we must look from case to case for the very exact words to make no mistakes - that might us later confuse.<br />
Take care,<br />
on doubts please ask - maybe I know where to find an answer? <br />
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Pastors and Church Administrators <br />
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Guy, Pfarrer, Pastor<br />
wrote the Title Page of Funeral / Burial Book Neckarelz 1870 <br />
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Pastors and Church Administrators <br />
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W. Schuhmann, Pfarrer, Pastor<br />
unders. funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862<br />
unders. bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (signature 19th) 1862 <br />
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Pastors and Church Administrators <br />
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Witnesses<br />
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Heinrich Augustin, precentor<br />
witn. marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857 <br />
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Witnesses <br />
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Heinrich Fütterer, evangelic saxton<br />
possibly identic with H. Fütterer<br />
witn. on bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th 1862 <br />
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Witnesses <br />
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H. Fütterer, day labourer<br />
possibly identic with Heinrich Fütterer<br />
witn. marr doc Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857 <br />
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Witnesses <br />
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top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back <br />
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Philipp Grimm<br />
Is he identic with Philipp Grimm reg. 1853 ?<br />
witn. bapt doc Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th 1862<br />
witn. funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862<br />
witn. marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863<br />
Profession<br />
self- employed coachman after marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863<br />
farmer after funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862<br />
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Witnesses <br />
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Adam Mitmesser, farmer<br />
witn. funl. doc Katharina Grimm B Feb. 3rd 1862 <br />
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Witnesses <br />
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Gyldane Mittersson<br />
witn. marr doc Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm Oct. 8th 1863 <br />
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Witnesses <br />
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order after documents<br />
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Marriage 1857 Georg Adam Grimm & Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller p 20 no 4<br />
Funeral 1862 Katharina Grimm B p 105 no 3<br />
Baptism 1862 Johann Ludwig Haas p 61 no 8<br />
Marriage 1863 Jakob Haas & Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm p 42 no 9<br />
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left side middle right side of Register H 1818<br />
left side middle right side of Register G 1849<br />
left side middle right side of Register G 1853<br />
Beerdigungsbuch Neckarelz 1870 Funeral / Burial Book Cover<br />
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Marriage <br />
Georg Adam Grimm - Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller June 9th 1857<br />
reg. as "Adam Grimm" in Register G 1853 (p 20 no 4) line 2<br />
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Please note,<br />
in this marriage document are not named the parents of bride and groom. <br />
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20<br />
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No. 4 <br />
1857<br />
<br />
<br />
Im Jahr eintausendachthundert und sieben und fünfzig den neunten <br />
In the year onethousandeigthhundred and seven and fifty on ninth <br />
<br />
Juni, Vormittags elf Uhr wurde dahier nach Trauschein des Großh. <br />
June, morning 11 o'clock have been in here after marr certificate of Grand D. <br />
<br />
Bezirksamtes Mosbach vom 30 Mai 1857 No. 17417 und nach ordnungs- <br />
(Grand Duke) district office Mosbach from May 30th 1857 no. 17417 and after <br />
<br />
mäßiger Proklamation vom 31 Mai und 7 Juni d. J. und nach Entlaß- <br />
regular proclamation from May 31st and June 7th this year and after dismissal <br />
<br />
schein des hiesigen kathol. Pfarramtes durch den unterzeichneten <br />
certificate of local catholic parish office by the underwriting <br />
<br />
Pfarrverweser getraut: Adam , Bürger und Fischer dahier, <br />
parish administrator married: Adam , local citizen and fisherman, <br />
<br />
evangelischer Konfeßion, geboren den 5ten Mai 1804, Witwer der <br />
evangelic confession, born on May 5th 1804, widower of <br />
<br />
Sophia Katharina, geb. Mayer und Katharina Brauch geborene <br />
Sophia Katharina, née Mayer and Katharina Brauch née <br />
<br />
Haller, Witwe des verstorbenen hiesigen Bürgers Joh. Peter <br />
Haller, widow of late local citizen Joh. Peter <br />
<br />
Brauch, geboren den 3ten Januar 1807, kathol. Konfession. Zeugen: <br />
Brauch, born on January 3rd 1807, cathol. confession. Witnesses: <br />
<br />
Heinrich Augustin, hiesiger Bürger und Kantor und H. Fütterer <br />
Heinrich Augustin, local citizen and precentor and H. Fütterer <br />
<br />
hiesiger Bürger und Taglöhner. <br />
local citizen and day labourer. <br />
<br />
Neckarelz, den 9ten Juni 1857 <br />
Neckarelz, on June 9th 1857 <br />
<br />
W Hoffinger, Pfarrverw. <br />
parish administrator<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
9ten Juni<br />
Adam <br />
und<br />
Katharina Brauch<br />
geb. Haller<br />
<br />
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Funeral<br />
Katharina Grimm B Febr. 3rd 1862 <br />
<br />
1862. <br />
(p 105)<br />
3. Im Jahr Ein tausend acht hundert und Zwei und <br />
3. In Year One thousand eight hundred and Two and <br />
<br />
sechzig, am ersten Februar Morgens <br />
sixty, on first February Morning <br />
<br />
neun Uhr starb zu Neckarelz und wurde den <br />
nine o'clock died at Neckarelz and has been on <br />
<br />
dritten Februar Morgens Zehn Uhr durch <br />
third February Morning Ten o'clock by (through) <br />
den 1sten Febr. <br />
on 1st Febr. <br />
Kath. <br />
<br />
(10 Monate <br />
(10 Months <br />
<br />
15 Tage <br />
15 Days<br />
<br />
106 1862.<br />
<br />
den unterzeichneten Pfarrverweser beerdigt:<br />
the undersigned Parish Administrator buried:<br />
<br />
Katharina, ein Zehn Monate und fünfzehn<br />
Katharina, a Ten Months and fifteen<br />
<br />
Tage altes Kind, uneheliches Kind der Katharina<br />
Days old child, illegitime child of Katharina<br />
<br />
Elisabetha , eheliche Tochter des hiesigen<br />
Elisabetha , conjugal Daughter of local<br />
<br />
Bürgers und Fischers Georg Adam und der<br />
Citizen and Fisherman Georg Adam and the<br />
<br />
verstorbenen Katharina, geborene Mayer da =<br />
late Katharina, née Mayer in (there)<br />
<br />
hier. Zeugen sind: Adam Mitmesser und<br />
here. Witnesses are: Adam Mitmesser and<br />
<br />
Philipp , beide Bürger und Bauern dahier.<br />
Philipp , both Citizens and Farmers in here.<br />
<br />
Neckarelz, den 3ten Febr. 1862<br />
Neckarelz, on 3rd Febr. 1862<br />
<br />
M. Schuhmann, Pfarrer.<br />
Pastor<br />
<br />
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Baptism<br />
Johann Ludwig Haas May 18th (sign. 19th) 1862<br />
<br />
1862. <br />
61.<br />
<br />
8. Im Jahr Ein tausend acht hundert und Zwei und<br />
8th In year one thousand eight hundred and two and<br />
<br />
sechzig, den zehnten Mai Abends um neun<br />
sixty, the tenth May evening at nine<br />
<br />
Uhr wurde zu Neckarelz geboren und am acht =<br />
o'clock has been to Neckarelz born and on eight -<br />
<br />
zehnten desselbigen Monats Mittags Zwei Uhr<br />
tenth of the same month noon two o'clock<br />
<br />
durch den unterzeichneten Pfarrverweser getauft:<br />
by the signatory Church Administrator baptized:<br />
<br />
Johann Ludwig, unehelicher Sohn der Elisabetha<br />
Johann Ludwig, illegitimate son of Elisabetha<br />
<br />
Grimm, ehelicher Tochter des Georg Adam ,<br />
Grimm, conjugal Daughter of Georg Adam ,<br />
<br />
Bürgers und Fischers dahier und dessen Ehefrau<br />
Citizen and Fisher in here and whose Wife<br />
<br />
Katharina geborene Maier. Pathen: Johann<br />
Katharina née Maier. Godfathers: Johann<br />
<br />
Ludwig , Bruder und Magdalena ,<br />
Ludwig , Brother and Magdalena ,<br />
<br />
Schwester der Mutter. Zeugen: Philipp<br />
Sister of the Mother. Witnesses: Philipp<br />
<br />
, Bürger und Bauer dahier und Heinrich<br />
, Citizen and Farmer in here and Heinrich<br />
<br />
Fütterer, evangelischer Kirchendiener dahier.<br />
Fütterer, evangelic Saxton in here.<br />
<br />
den 10ten Mai<br />
Johann Ludwig<br />
(unehelich)<br />
(illegitimate)<br />
<br />
jetzt<br />
by now<br />
<br />
Johann Ludwig Haas<br />
dieses Kind ist du[rch]<br />
this child is through<br />
<br />
Anerkennung u. nachf[ol-]<br />
Acknowlgm. a. follow-<br />
<br />
gende Ehe ehelich ge[wor-]<br />
ing Marriage legitimate beco-<br />
<br />
den. Siehe Ehebuch<br />
med. See Marriage book<br />
<br />
Jahrgang 1863 Seite [43]<br />
Volume 1863 Page [43]<br />
<br />
No 9.<br />
Godt, Pfr.<br />
(Pfarrer) Pastor<br />
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Neckarelz, den 19ten Mai<br />
1862.<br />
W. Schuhmann, Pfr.<br />
(Pfarrer) Pastor<br />
<br />
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Marriage<br />
Jakob Haas - Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm October 8th 1863<br />
<br />
<br />
42.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
8 October<br />
Jacob Haas<br />
und<br />
Catharina Elisabetha<br />
Grimm <br />
1863.<br />
<br />
<br />
No. 9. Im Jahr Christi eintausendachthundert<br />
No. 9. In the year of Christ onethousandeighthundred<br />
<br />
drei und sechzig den achten October Vormittags<br />
three and sixty at eighth october on morning<br />
<br />
elf Uhr wurden nach Trauschein Großh. Bezirks-<br />
eleven o'clock became after marriage certificate Grand- Ducal district<br />
<br />
amts Mosbach vom 12. Sept. d. J. No. 13,996, nach<br />
office Mosbach from Sept. 12th of this year No. 13,996, after<br />
<br />
ordnungsmäßiger Proklamation in hiesiger Kirche<br />
regular proclamation in local church<br />
<br />
am 13ten und 20 Sept. d. J. und nach Proklamations-<br />
on 13th and 20th sept. of this year and after proclamation<br />
<br />
schein des evang. Pfarramts Kälbertshausen<br />
certificate of evangelic parish office Kälbertshausen<br />
<br />
vom 24 Sept. d. J. durch den unterzeichneten<br />
from 24th sept. of the year by the signed<br />
<br />
Pfarrer hier getraut: Jacob Haas, Bür-<br />
pastor here married: Jacob Haas, citizen<br />
<br />
ger in Kälbertshausen und Leineweber, gebo-<br />
of Kälbertshausen and linen weaver, born<br />
<br />
ren den 29 April 1831 ehelicher lediger Sohn<br />
on 29th April 1831, conjugal single son<br />
<br />
des verstorbenen hiesigen Bürgers und Weber-<br />
of late local citizen and weaver<br />
<br />
meisters Johann Valentin Haas und seiner ver-<br />
master Johann Valentin Haas and his late<br />
<br />
storbenen Ehefrau Eva Catharina geb. Schnei-<br />
wife Eva Catharina née Schnei-<br />
<br />
der - und Catharina Elisabetha Grimm,<br />
der - and Catharina Elisabetha Grimm,<br />
<br />
geboren den 21 Novemb. 1836 eheliche ledige<br />
born on 21th novemb. 1836 conjugal single<br />
<br />
Tochter des hiesigen Bürgers und Maurer-<br />
daughter of local citizen and mason<br />
<br />
meisters Georg Adam Grimm und seiner<br />
master Georg Adam Grimm and his<br />
<br />
verstorbenen Ehefrau Sophie Catharina geb.<br />
late wife Sophie Catharina née<br />
<br />
Mayer, beide evangelischer Confession;<br />
Mayer, both evangelic confession;<br />
<br />
Zeugen waren: 1, Philipp Grimm, Fuhrmann,<br />
Witnesses have been: 1, Philipp Grimm, coachman,<br />
<br />
2, Georg Adam Mittersson, Tagelöhner, beide<br />
2, Georg Adam Mittersson, day labourer, both<br />
<br />
hiesige Bürger. -<br />
local citizens. -<br />
<br />
Unmittelbar vor der Trauung erklären die an-<br />
Directly before the wedding explain the be-<br />
<br />
gehenden Eheleute vor dem unterzeichneten<br />
ginning couples before the signed<br />
<br />
Pfarrer und den oben genannten Zeugen,<br />
pastor and the above named Witnesses,<br />
<br />
daß sie die Tochter, welche die Catharina Elisabe-<br />
that they the daughter, wich the Catharina Elisabe-<br />
<br />
tha Grimm am 13ten März 1858 Abends 9 Uhr<br />
tha Grimm on 13th march 1858 on evening 9 o'clock<br />
<br />
im ledigen Stande hier geboren und welche<br />
in single state here born and wich<br />
<br />
laut Taufbuch Seite 18 No. 2 den Namen<br />
after baptizing book page 18 no. 2 the name<br />
<br />
Elisabetha Catharina erhalten hat, sowie<br />
Elisabetha Catharina had got, as well as<br />
<br />
den Sohn, welchen die besagte Catharina Elisabetha<br />
the son, wich the said Catharina Elisabetha<br />
<br />
<br />
1863.<br />
<br />
<br />
Grimm am 10. Mai 1862 Abends neun Uhr im<br />
Grimm on may 10th on evening 9 o'clock in<br />
<br />
ledigen Stande hier geboren und, nachher laut Tauf-<br />
single state here gave birth and, after baptizing-<br />
<br />
buch Seite 61 No. 8 den Namen "Johann<br />
book page 61 No. 8 the Name "Johann<br />
<br />
Ludwig" erhalten hat, beide als ihre ehelichen<br />
Ludwig" got, both as their conjugal<br />
<br />
Kinder anerkennen. -<br />
children recognize. -<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Vorgelesen, anerkannt und unterschrieben:<br />
Read out, accepted and underwritten:<br />
<br />
Unterschrift der Eltern: Unterschrift der Zeugen:<br />
Signature of Parents: Signature of Witnesses:<br />
<br />
Jakob Haas Philipp Grimm<br />
<br />
Elisabetha Grimm Gyldane Mittersson<br />
<br />
Neckarelz, den achten October achtzehnhun-<br />
Neckarelz, on october eighth eighteenhun-<br />
<br />
dert drei und sechzig. -<br />
dred three and sixty. -<br />
<br />
FHGodt Pfarrer<br />
Pastor <br />
43.<br />
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Beerdigungsbuch<br />
Funeral / Burial Book<br />
<br />
der evang. zert. Kirchengemeinde<br />
of the evangelic certificated Church community<br />
<br />
Neckarelz<br />
Neckarelz<br />
<br />
Geführt durch:<br />
leaded (managed) by<br />
<br />
1) Pfarrer Guy vom 1. Februar 1870 an.<br />
Pastor Guy from February 1st 1870 on.<br />
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The Sütterlin ABC<br />
see also Names in Sütterlin scripture<br />
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A A B B C C D D E E F F G G H H I I J J K K L L M M<br />
N N O O P P Q Q R R S S T T U U V V W W X X Y Y Z Z<br />
a a b b c c d d e e f f g g h h i i j j k k l l m m<br />
n n o o p p q q r r s s t t u u v v w w x x y y z z<br />
<br />
0 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9<br />
Umlaute Ä Ä ä ä Ö Ö ö ö Ü Ü ü ü <br />
special S ß ß sharp S $ $ final S<br />
similar looking capitals B B C C L L <br />
<br />
If you like that, load and install the Sütterlin scripture suefrag1.ttf to see an upright form of the german characters. I have learned, a correct scripture must point to a direction of 70°. This scripture, nearby 90° vertikal is never a scripture as we like to use daily, I guess, it is a revision of the 1920ies, no more usual after WWII. Unto schoolreform in late 1951, I had to learn to write in a similar scripture for about one a half years. Some characters are in here missed - e. g. some final characters (final characters are known in other laguages too, e. g. in ancient hebrew).<br />
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Names in Sütterlin scripture suefrag1.ttf<br />
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see also The Sütterlin ABC<br />
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Georg Adam Grimm<br />
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Georg Adam Grimm <br />
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Johanna Elisabetha Grimm <br />
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Johanna Elisabetha Grimm <br />
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Johann Ludwig Grimm <br />
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Johann Ludwig Grimm <br />
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Joh. Matthia$ Grimm <br />
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Joh. Matthias Grimm <br />
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Kathar. Elis. Grimm <br />
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Kathar. Elis. Grimm <br />
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Katharina Grimm<br />
wid. Joh. Peter Brauch née Haller <br />
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Katharina Grimm widowed Joh. Peter Brauch née Haller <br />
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Katharina Grimm B<br />
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Katharina Grimm B <br />
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Ludwig Anton Grimm <br />
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Ludwig Anton Grimm <br />
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Magdalena Grimm <br />
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Magdalena Grimm <br />
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Philipp Grimm <br />
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Philipp Grimm <br />
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Sophie Katharina Grimm <br />
née Maier <br />
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Sophie Katharina Grimm née Maier <br />
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Elisabetha Katharina Haa$ <br />
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Elisabetha Katharina Haas <br />
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Eva Katharina Haa$ <br />
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Eva Katharina Haas <br />
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Jakob Haa$ <br />
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Jakob Haas <br />
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Johann Ludwig Haa$ <br />
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Johann Ludwig Haas <br />
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Johann Valentin Haa$ <br />
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Johann Valentin Haas <br />
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Katharina Elisabetha Haa$<br />
née Grimm <br />
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Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm<br />
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Haller Maier Grimm Schneider Haas <br />
Katharina<br />
Grimm 1<br />
wid Brauch<br />
née Haller<br />
born Jan 3rd 1807<br />
2nd wife of 3<br />
stepm. of 8 Sophie Katharina<br />
Grimm 2<br />
née Maier<br />
1st wife of 3<br />
mother of 8 Georg Adam <br />
Grimm 3 born<br />
May 5th 1804<br />
married 1<br />
Jun 9th 1857 Eva Katharina<br />
Haas 4<br />
née Schneider Johann Valentin<br />
Haas 5<br />
widower while<br />
marriage of 8 9<br />
Magdalena<br />
Grimm 6<br />
sister of 7 8 Johann Ludwig<br />
Grimm 7<br />
brother of 6 8<br />
it is not known, 6 7 are<br />
children of 1 or of 2<br />
Katharina Elisabetha Haas 8<br />
née Grimm<br />
born Nov 21st 1836<br />
mother of 10 11 B Jakob Haas 9<br />
born Apr 29th 1831 married 8 Oct<br />
8th 1863 citizen of Kälbertshausen<br />
~ 5 miles southwest of Neckarelz<br />
Johann Ludwig Haas 10<br />
born May 10th 1862<br />
brother of 11 B<br />
immigr. to the USA Elisabetha Katharina Haas 11<br />
born March 13th 1858 named in<br />
marr doc Oct 8th 1863 p 42 no 9<br />
5 lines near end of docs 1st page<br />
sister of 10 B<br />
some homelesses <br />
Johanna Elisabetha 1852 p 37 n 7<br />
Philipp 1853 p 21 n 1<br />
Joh. Matthias 1866 p 57 n 2<br />
Kathar. Elis. 1869 p 172 n 3<br />
Ludwig Anton 1869 p 172 n 6<br />
Katharina Grimm B<br />
died Feb 1st 1862 as "ten months<br />
and fifteen days old" named in<br />
funl doc Feb 3rd 1862 p 105 no 3<br />
sister of 10 11<br />
<br />
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**GC** D. F.<br />
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This webpage "all in one" is packed in a selfexploding exe file all_in_1.exe it will have ~ 1 MB. To unpack click on all_in_1.exe in main folder, the needed subfolder will be created while unpacking.<br />
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Updates will be much smaller, this first archive will contain more pictures as the next will need.<br />
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the Sütterlin scripture suefrag1.ttf - see The Sütterlin ABC<br />
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bottom<br />
top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back<br />
I guess, there are at present two problems to go ahead.<br />
A.<br />
Unknown persons, e. g. see "some homelesses" (homeless because I do not know, where to build in their names) in tree. I see the idea "get the unknown" as a prior interest to find out all family branches.<br />
B.<br />
Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm, wife of Jakob Haas has a sister Magdalena Grimm and a brother Johann Ludwig Grimm named in Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm - Jakob Haas marriage document as Witnesses. The mother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm, wife of Jakob Haas is Sophie Katharina Grimm née Maier 1st wife of Georg Adam Grimm named in Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm - Jakob Haas marriage document.<br />
Who is the mother of Magdalena Grimm and Johann Ludwig Grimm? See also tree.<br />
To be exact, since Georg Adam Grimm and his 2nd wife Katharina Grimm wid Brauch née Haller, mother of Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm have been more than one times married, we do also not know, who their father is.<br />
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At Least<br />
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This page is to understand as an addition to our previous pages. (It is the largest page I ever wrote and it will contain nearby 1000 internal links.) In the beginning of the Grimm and Haas adventure I had not known, where the way will lead us and had not a sight for a good folder structure, now the case is stepped in and we will get more and more documents. Right now - after seeing, what is needed or what could be done better for the future, I am creating a new folder - and page structure, that shall meet the needings for a long time of growing family branches. Every update will create its own subfolder. While clicking, copying and writing I got the idea to create a central document - this page, containing the collected facts for a fasten and sure overview. Details like translations, comments etc can be done in framesets - as we had already before - linked from / to this page (is my plan).<br />
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I am new to genalogy.<br />
I have no idea what to do and in wich way. This page is a result of my phantasy, what could be helpfull to go ahead.<br />
It will contain mistakes. Not by will. I always have written what really exists - no more. A clear picture of my knowledge is the tree. In doubts I have looked to find out the best or have pointed to the problem, e. g. in matters about the unknown registered persons<br />
Johanna Elisabetha Grimm 1852 p 37 n 7<br />
Philipp Grimm 1853 p 21 n 1<br />
Joh. Matthias Grimm 1866 p 57 n 2<br />
Kathar. Elis. Grimm 1869 p 172 n 3<br />
Ludwig Anton Grimm 1869 p 172 n 6<br />
or in the case of the unknown mother of Magdalena Grimm and Johann Ludwig Grimm, sister and brother of the central person Katharina Elisabetha Haas née Grimm.<br />
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Her signature in her marriage document.<br />
Ladies like she will have my sympathy. I wish I could spend comfort and help to get a better existance. What a hopeless life she must have had, condamned to live in a time with unanswered burning social questions - in a secularized Germany. Later, in end of century, after 1880 large awakenesses brake up - but the years before in growing industry environments, ordinairy people like workers and farmers had not good days. Poorness was extreme and always and everywhere present, an endless tristesse.<br />
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By the way - the tree.<br />
It may be, I have mirrored or turned on head - never before I have written or drawn a family tree. I could have read a book about how to handle individual genealogy, but have not done because I will save time. In case, any content of my stuff will not be usefull or a hinderance, I promise, I will better it.<br />
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The tables max (outter) width is 612 pixels. Plus 20 pix for scrollbar and 8 pix tolerance for a possibly browser window frame on both sides, it meets the size of elder screens. For sure, we use larger screens, but to read text, spread over a wider area is uncomfortable, lines should have a length like printed books, no more. It is in common recommended to break lines in eMails already after 72 characters. This text in the by me preselected scripture size should have around 90 characters per line, the maximum is reached by this. What a luck the Grimm and Hass families do not use too long names, otherwise I had trouble in some cases like in tree with needed space.<br />
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Appendix November 2008 - Ferdinand Haas<br />
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top order after ... dates ... names ... documents tree download bottom history.back<br />
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end of page<br />
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© 1804 to 2003 the Grimm and Haas families<br />
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Carolynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01173949750553689335noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503524507039329317.post-21979768148192323182012-11-20T18:00:00.001-08:002012-11-20T18:00:38.521-08:00Johann Ludwig Haas - Google Drive<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JYKu37Lcog7bj2MWNYEHO9b-SuijjQsAl3wGtXR7Oko/edit">JoLuHaas - Google Drive</a>Carolynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01173949750553689335noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503524507039329317.post-10946010526198887362012-11-20T17:11:00.001-08:002012-11-20T19:55:15.573-08:00<br />
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I found the webpage that Carsten, who interpreted the documents that I sent him from Old German to English. He made this website and I had saved it to my harddrive when the webpage was going to be taken down. I am including the first paragraph as Carsten had written it down in it's entirety. I haven't learned to put the webpage back as Carsten had it when it was online. Carsten has since gone on to heaven and can not continue the project that he had predicted that this would become. I'm trying to put back as much of the information from those interpreted documents back in this Haas and Grimm blog. It will be difficult to follow, as I do not know how to write html and make the links back to the original as Carsten had made them. Thank you, Carsten, for the work that you did for me. Carolyn<br />
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The Mrs. C. F. - related german Family Branches Haas and Grimm<br />
living at Neckarelz, Baden*, Germany in 19th century<br />
all known facts collected and shown on one single webpage<br />
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contents, navigation<br />
order after ... dates ... names ... documents<br />
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tree download bottom history.back<br />
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*Baden is today a part of Baden - Württemberg<br />
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The view is directed to 18th century, so the stories about Johann Ludwig Haas as a citizen of the United States Of America and about his immigration are not touched.<br />
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"all in one" will be updated<br />
previous this next<br />
allin000.htm allin001.htm allin002.htm<br />
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correctures will be done quickly<br />
my eMail address fit_n_healthy@gmx.de<br />
see also "At Least" from Nov 2003<br />
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The picture is shrinked, click by left to enlarge and return by back function of your browser or click by right and choose "open in new window". <br />
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Carolynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01173949750553689335noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503524507039329317.post-29971190529176274782008-12-17T19:23:00.000-08:002012-11-20T17:51:48.524-08:00Marriage and Baptismal Records Translated I found these documents on microfilm that I had ordered at my nearby Family History Center. I made photo-copies from the micro-film of the records that pertained to names that looked like my family names and I sent them to Carsten. It is very hard to find someone who can read the Old Style Fraktur writing and print. It was indeed a blessing when Carsten was able to be familiar with the Fraktur and translated for me from the German to English.<br />
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He has provided copies of the documents that I sent to him. Since they were so large he needed to show them in sections. But, on this webpage that he made for me, one can navigate around the site.<br />
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There is a wealth of genealogy information in these church documents. I will share more about them in another post.Carolynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01173949750553689335noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503524507039329317.post-89791568777484835742008-11-18T15:35:00.001-08:002008-11-18T18:28:00.300-08:00Where Do I BeginWhere do I begin to share the story of my journey in discovering my German heritage?<br /><br />I have been researching my mother's side of the family history for several years. It has been a fun, and exciting journey of research and travel for me. <br /><br />My problem is deciding how to organize it and share it in this blog.<br /><br />It is my goal to document here my HAAS and GRIMM Family research with original documents and family photos. My friend Carsten Schermuly, who lives in Germany, and who can read the old style German Fraktur script, is translating documents for me that I have found on microfilm at my nearby Family History Center. My photos have been given to me by my mother. There are some photos that I will share that have been given to me by extended family members, too. <br /><br />My journey with my German research began with stories from my Grandfather Julius George Haas whose father and mother both came from Baden, Germany. Johann Ludwig Haas immigrated from Neckarelz, Baden, Germany in 1882, and Mary Magdalena Bauer immigrated from Rosenberg, Baden, Germany about the same time as Great Grandfather Johann Ludwig Haas. The story goes that they were first cousins who met and married after both immigrated to America. My Great Grandfather came first and he is first documented in Harrison Co., Indiana where his Uncle Ferdinand Haas was living.<br /><br />Mary Magdalena Bauer, whose father was Ferdinand Haas, immigrated to America to live with her father. She had her mother's maiden name as her father probably had not married her mother before she was born. I have not found a marriage document and children who were born out of wedlock were give the name their mother's maiden name.<br /><br />This was the information that my Grandfather Julius Haas was able to remember to pass on to me. He did tell me that his Grandfather's name was Jakob. But, I was not able to know anything about that name until further research and a trip back to the Old Country to the village of their origination where there were baptismal and marriage records with family names on them. It is these records that confirm my German heritage.<br /><br />I was able to find the village from a copy of the Naturalization document and a Citizenship Paper that my mother's cousin, Randle Lee Haas, sent to me. Randle Lee's father had given these documents to him.<br /><br />The story will continue later...........Carolynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01173949750553689335noreply@blogger.com6tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503524507039329317.post-74804263959017945412008-11-05T20:39:00.000-08:002012-11-20T17:52:11.853-08:00Documents Translated From GermanJohann Ludwig Haas by Carsten Schermuly<br />
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<a HREF="http://www.ebiz-mlm-nr1.de/cs/gc/all_in_1/all_in_one.htm#top">Johann Ludwig Haas by Carsten Schermuly</A>Carolynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01173949750553689335noreply@blogger.com0